Transcript
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey everybody, welcome to another edition of Collaborative Corner, the podcast. We are coming to you from whatever medium you're going to be using, whether it be an iPhone, an iPad. I don't know, can you listen to stuff like this on Androids? I'm not sure, but hey, if you can, you be you, Boo. I have no idea. But more importantly, I am excited today to have a conversation about a topic that the fact that this is a podcast kind of implies that you can't tell what I look like. And more importantly, you can't tell that I'm aging and all the other things that go along with aesthetics, the aesthetic nature of ourselves. I literally had somebody say to me the other day, "You look so different." And I said, "Really?" They're like, "Yeah, you've gotten older." And that was really, really, really sweet. And that was one of my kids.
(00:59):
So I am fortunate enough to have today Dr. Gina Wesley from Complete Eyecare of ... Is it Medina or Medina?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Medina.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Medina. So I mean, honestly, if I was in your practice, Gina, I would be funky, cold, Medina.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I have a hat that says funky, cold, Medina.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I love it. I love
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Gina is coming to us, not with just her OD, her MS, or FAAO. She's clinical trials. She does ... I mean, I don't want to tout all the things you do, but I'm more impressed by the fact that you have a private practice. So you not only run a practice, but then you do all the other extra things that most optometric clinicians will say they don't have time to do. And so I am floored by the fact that it's like you can kind of do all these things and you're a mom of two and you have a husband who's needy, all of those things.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Well, thank you. That's really nice of you. I wouldn't be able to do it without an incredible team of people. And you have to remember, I don't see patients five days a week. So it does help a bit to be able to spread out some of that time. But those things have grown organically as I've had my practice. They've all come about. I used to not do as many things and it's been added to over the years.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Okay. So let's start by that. So let's say you're an optometrist who's A, either just starting out or B, you want to branch out into doing other things. And I get a lot of ODs that say, "Hey, how did you start doing clinical trials?" That's something for another time. I think, "Hey, when did you start writing and lecturing?" And again, that's for another time, but what are the tangible things that you do in your practice to actually help your patients, but it also enhances your practice and sets you aside. Did you decide, okay, every year we're going to add another piece of equipment, whether it be diagnostic or therapeutic, or you said that it became organic. Was it patients would come in and you noticed that it's like there's some technology you could have to help the patients that you did seeing? I
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Think it was more the latter where I was like, "I'm really missing this piece of information and I think that would benefit my patients," but then it made it so that it was almost like a new piece of equipment every year. And I like to have great technology and experiences for my patients. We have a very preventative approach to practicing and seeing patients. And so I like to be able to have the technology that educates them and that parlays into lots of other areas where all of a sudden you become a little bit more of a specialist and you know a little bit more about a specific area of your practice and you can branch out from there.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So did you start by with contact lenses? Did you start with dry eye? Did you start with content? I mean, did I say context? I said that twice now, huh? I think I said that because I have PTSD because I had two contact lens evals today because we have somebody in our practice who went on maternity leave and she likes to do context. And I walk in and my first thought is context, you don't really want context, right? Is it really? Come on, really? So yeah, I have PTSD, but was there one kind of area that you were working on originally?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So I think it probably started, I started my practice cold about 18 years ago, and I just naturally fit a lot of contact lenses, which I know you said we're not going to talk about clinical research, but that led into some speaking and clinical research that then enhanced my expertise. And I found that I was one of the top prescribers of multifocals in my state, even though at that time I was only seeing patients about two and a half days a week. Their practice was very young. So I was like, I guess I'm doing something a little differently. And so that natural expansion into just being a high percentage fitter and success with my patients in contact lenses then led us into orthokeratology. And then if you have contact lens whereas that naturally segues into dry eye. And so those would be the two big areas that my practice specializes in based on previous experience and how that kind of organically built based on what patients needed.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah. Okay. So I know we have to diverge. We have to kind of pivot. Is there one, two things, two kind of just tips you could give people on helping patients with multifocal context because the percentage of OTs that prescribe them is paltry. It's like so low.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
It is. And so I tell doctors, I say, this is what I say to patients. I say, "Here's the reality and the expectation with multifocals is to keep you free from needing to grab reading glasses or another means of correction to see clearly up close about 50 to 70% of the time." Pause. The patient will weed themselves out right then and there if they're not a good candidate, but if they're like, "Okay." And I say, "Look, it's going to be difficult in daily lit restaurants. You will see some glare inhalers when you're driving at nighttime, but you're going to gain a lot of flexibility in your vision. So you should see this as a tool. Everybody's day-to-day is a little bit different, so we won't really know until we fit you, but that is the realistic expectation." And when you level set it, I think, like I said, that helps weed out the people who would already have failed, and then that helps you with the patients who are remaining because they get it and then they're like, "Oh, this is ... " They don't have too high of expectations and that helps a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah. You actually nailed something 18 years ago when you first started doing this, which is everything that we do in our practices is about expectation setting. And I feel that for those of our colleagues that struggle with dry eye or contacts or refractive surgery or even glaucoma, it always boils down to what is the end game? How can we determine that we've actually accomplished what we're trying to accomplish when the reality is I almost kind of feel like we never do. And so it's getting patients to understand that this is, like you said, level setting the expectations, this is where we're going to be. And for patients that have too high of expectations, then they need something different. But more importantly, especially with dry eye, it really comes down to letting patients understand that this is a dynamic disease state that we will never cure.
(07:57):
And so what we can do is do the things that we can to manage it. And I think you've done a phenomenal job with that. And it's interesting to me how it's like, you just mentioned talking about worth okay, and I think you've done stuff with refractive surgery as well, where patients who are like, "I don't want to wear the multifocals. I want to get out of that, " and setting those expectations.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah. And I think the important thing is you have to keep setting and reminding of the expectations. It's not just a one-time conversation. And I think that that dialogue and figuring out what patients' goals are, because everybody's goals are different, especially with dry eye. Some people, all they care about is they parents. Some people, all they want is some symptomatic relief. Some people just want to wear their contact lenses longer. So if you can figure that out, that helps quite a bit in your success rate because you might be really working hard to maintain their meibomian glands and get them open, flowing and moving when all they really wanted was just to look a little younger and for me to tell them everything looks good. So if you could figure that out, that will increase your chances of success.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I think it also goes to the point where oftentimes I see patients that come in and say, "Well, the doctor prescribed this for me because they told me I had dry eye." And I'm like, "Well, they did tell you what this was going to do for you. Did they tell you what you could expect from it? " It's like, no. And so it's like you have to go into any of these things with saying, "This is why we're doing this. This is what you can hope to expect or not expect." I mean, sometimes not having a symptom to me means that we're doing well. Something's humming in the background, but I'm going to change topics a little bit. I went to ChatGPT because why? Because that's how I roll. And I said, "Hey, ChatGPT, what's ocular aesthetics?" And he told me that it's this, well, it's a he because that's- Is
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I'm a sexist. I'm sexist. Okay. Mine has an English accent. He's from England, smushing, and it's like sometimes it's a little pithy with me. And I actually like that. I think I deserve that. So yeah. Is yours a female? Does yours go- Female
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Australian.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Oh, he might girl. She is
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Very posh. I
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Can't do that. I wish I could do an Australian accent. So it's basically, this is a specialized field of care of eye care that focuses on the appearance and health of the eyes and the surrounding facial tissue. So this bridges the gap between medical eye care and cosmetic enhancement, addressing issues that affect how eyes both look and function. And you literally, literally just said that and you said it without really defining ocular aesthetics, you said some patients care about how they look, some patients care about how it functions or how their symptoms are. So talk to me about how you've incorporated the devices and the tools you have into your practice to manage both of those.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
So just like we had talked about that organic approach, it started out as me getting a treatment for gland therapy, right? Thermal heat pulsation to help get the glands. And all of a sudden those patients are like, "Gosh, I feel better. I'm seeing that clinically they look better and they feel like they look better
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Everybody likes to look better." That was a nice added benefit. And so as we started to add more therapies like IPL and radiofrequency, and now we do radiofrequency microneedling and dynamic muscle stimulation, all of those things not only help dry eye, but patients are thrilled with how much better they look. And really the two are not mutually exclusive. Even if you practice somewhere where maybe you can't do as much aesthetics, you will help patients look better if you help their dry eye. So ocular aesthetics really, my argument can be done through a variety of means of different treatments and therapies for your patients, whether that's the intended outcome or not. And intentionally for my practice, it is now. We had some scope expansion last year that allows us to be able to do a bit more with that. And patients are thrilled to be able to expand beyond, I've been doing all these treatments for dry eye and I've really loved the improvements my appearance, but now I can even do more of that to help with everything at working in tandem.
(12:28):
And so as I like to tell patients, it's really nice to be able to help attack the dry eye issues from a variety of mechanisms of action and every patient responds differently and some respond predictably and some more so to one therapy than the other. And then it's our job to figure out which is working best and to continue along that vein.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Is it mainly females or do you also see a lot of your male patients who are kind of fall into the same category?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It is mostly female at this time, but we do have some guys that really do appreciate the therapies and improvement in appearance, especially if they suffer from rosacea. They've got prominent veins on their face, nose, chin. Those are the guys that really appreciate what we can do for them, especially through IPL. So yeah, we still do have guys, but definitely a little more female heavy.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah. So a couple things. I mean, I could just keep going on because questions keep coming up. So first and foremost, you mentioned DMS. Okay. Is that digital ... What is it?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Dynamic muscle stimulation.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
See, I knew. I thought it was DMX because we're like funky colonedina. Then we got some DMX. I'm going to make it up in here. I would say DMS. Yeah. What? What? So to me, that seems relatively new, is it?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It is relatively new. And so- So
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Can you talk about that for a couple
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Seconds? Yeah. So dynamic muscle stimulation helps with facial toning is the best way I say to my patients. I say, "We all know we're fighting gravity." Mark, maybe you not as much as others. Oh,
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Gravity. Yes, no, totally. John Mayer and I are both fighting gravity.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
But naturally, and patients can relate to this. I was like, gravity. I use my hands a lot when I speak, and I know this is a podcast, but gravity is pulling everything down constantly. And so we talk about how that impacts our lower eyelid structure, particularly. And they can see this with bags. They can see this with under the eyes. And then I say, and it affects your blank. And we know that this is important because as our patients age, if your patient complains about, I wake up in the morning and my eyes feel really dry, we know there's some component of leg upthalmus, and that's likely because in part their lid structure is not as taught as it once was. So the combination of dynamic muscle stimulation and radiofrequency helps to retone, tighten, and get those muscles active so that you are going to get an enhancement in structure and function because of the better dynamics that are engaged and initiated.
(15:16):
If you combine that with some radiofrequency microneedling, you're getting the best of all worlds because you have these various methods of tightening. Now, we always tell our patients, this isn't like getting a facelift. A facelift is a permanent change in that structure. This is something that has to be maintained. The studies that show that the benefits last for about 12 months, then you have to do some sort of maintenance to be able to improve that. But for patients who want to avoid surgery, have less invasive means of helping structure out, we've found it to be a very effective way in which to do that and help their dry eye.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
So how many treatments do they have to have? Is it- So the
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Protocol we have is there's five treatments about every two weeks. Every treatment has the dynamic muscle stimulation with radiofrequency, but on the first, third, and fifth, you're also pairing that with radiofrequency microneedling.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
So you're not doing that at every treatment. That would be a little bit much for the skin to take, but the combination of all of those has been, it's shown. And what I see with patients as I've been following up with them, because we just incorporated this into our practice less than six months ago, but as I see them for follow-up, remember, we're not even doing a gland evacuation treatment. We're treating around the eyes where we're not even directly on the eyelids, but the improvements in gland function and the reduction in inflammation and what I'm seeing clinically and what I'm seeing on their SPED score, the speed survey is how we gauge our patient's symptoms. Tremendous improvement, tremendous improvement. I mean, really, really beneficial.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
So I mean, I have patients constantly asking me about the bags. Did I say that right? The bags under their eyes. Are we going
Speaker 2 (17:05):
To get fun of me? It's fine.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
No, it's fine. I was at the bubbler and I was talking about the bags. I mean, so that would be a good treatment then. I mean, because I'll be honest with you, when patients say to me, "What about these bags?" I'm like, "Well, like you say, I tell patients it's gravity. You know what? Everything's kind of dropping, so it's filling up with fluid." And they're like, "So what can I do about it? " And I go, "All right, I'll see in a week or two." I mean, so that actually would help to tighten that up?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yes. And that is probably the number one reported, I love this treatment, fill in the blank. It's because of the reduction of that under eye
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Tissue. Wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And what's interesting is if you think about the surgical side of things, when you do a lower lid bleph, you have to be very concerned about potential loss of orbital fat. The one area in our body we do not want to lose, we want fat, we want it to be filled in, but if you take too much away, then the tissue is going to be more like say-
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Solasis, like dropping, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Exactly. So the RF microneedling for that under eye area and around the eye has been amazing for patients and the reduction of that appearance.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
So what those do is it is very similar to the cornea where you basically, with radiofrequency, you needle it to basically ... And then it would radiofrequency cause it to tighten around that needling almost. So it keeps it taut. So it's kind of similar scenario. I love that.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Well, and I was going to say too, for patients who are familiar with microneedling in more of a cosmetic setting like a MedDerm spa, there's a lot of different types of microneedling, but this particular one does not require a numbing of the skin because it's not penetrating so deeply that it's going to be that you have
Speaker 1 (19:01):
To
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Numb it up to be able to withstand it. I tell patients sometimes get a little nervous and they're like, "What is it going to hurt?" And I'm like, no, it's like taking a piece of Velcro and pressing it into the skin repeatedly. It's like a little rough, but it's not so painful that you are coming out of this like, that was a really, really uncomfortable procedure.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
And is this something that you feel a technician can do and then you come in afterwards or is this something that you do?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
No. So we do have a trained and licensed aesthetician who is delivering this treatment. Yes. Now I was trained on it. Can I do it? Yes, I can. I can, but it's not the greatest-
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Best use of your
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Time. Which is another podcastwall and of
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Itself. Yeah, 100%. But okay. So you had told me though that IPL is something you do the most.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I do.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah. So I know a little bit about IPL from the perspective that it doesn't really work on tone or texture or kind of the volume of the aesthetics, but it does work on the inflammatory aspect and kind of like taking away the ...
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So yeah, so IPL is the most of what we do for treatments. And that's likely because we've had it for about nine years in my practice and we have a lot of experience, which has helped guide us with it. But I always tell patients, I go, look, IPL is going to target the inflammatory vessels that are feeding into and around your eyes and they're causing the clogging of your glands, the symptoms that you're having in the first place. So we can get glands open flowing and moving, but if we don't solve the underlying cause of why that's happening, that's why it's just going to continue to happen again and again.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So
Speaker 2 (20:51):
When we do, I say we've got the intense light, it's targeting the pigment in those that are called pigmented chromatophors in the blood vessels, making them go away. We're very cautious. Obviously, it depends on your skin type. This is something where you do have to pay attention to patients and the pigment in their skin. I live in Minnesota, as you have pointed out with some of your jokes and comments, you are in a place where you always have to be worried about pigment in the skin. I do not. I have about a good nine months of the year that people are pretty good candidates for IPL with
Speaker 1 (21:24):
A standing- Your average Fitzpatrick scale is what, a two?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I would say it's a two. Pink no. Pink. If you're lucky, you get a one. I always tell patients, I was like, "This is great. You're a great candidate for this. " But rosacea really is just such a common here. And that's what IPL responds to. And I always tell patients, I go, "Remember, rosacea is affecting your sebaceous or your oil glands and meibomian glands are specialized sebaceous glands, so that explanation helps them to understand." But yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah. Okay. So we're rounding the corner here because we've talked about so much and I could keep going on and on. Like I said, I mean, I learned more listening to this than the two people that probably stayed on this long. And one of them is probably one of my kids. And what I was going to say though is that low level light therapy, LLT. Yes. Right? Do you have that in your practice?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I do have that in my
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Practice. Oh my God, you have everything.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I do.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Okay. So do you have the whole spectrum? I think there's like what, 24 different colors that ...
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah. So we have blue, red, yellow, infrared.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Infrared. Okay. So those are the four main ones.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Okay. So just kind of go off a little bit on LLT and I'm going to end it, but I want you to tell me why. How is that different than somebody going into the Mall of America and going in and looking for a red light therapy over at the Nordstrom's counter or going on the Amazon and getting their own blue light therapy for home?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
So I tell my patients the device that we have is medical grade. So you're getting more, it's a lot wider than just like a mask or something that you're putting and rubbing on your face. So I think that there are devices out there. And I tell patients, if that's something that you want to pursue and you feel that it helps you, that is your choice. But I have been really happy with low level light therapy, especially when we pair it with another treatment.
(23:43):
It seems to enhance the results because it helps with the inflammation post-treatment. I tell patients, I go, "Remember the mechanism is that it's increasing the energy and rejuvenation of those cells." So it feels really good too, which patients like ... And this is a nice treatment. I tell doctors too, if you have patients who are reluctant to move forward with something that seems a little bit more spicy or irritating or they're worried about it, I was like, "This is a nice treatment to have patients undergo." It can help a lot with reduction of inflammation when somebody has a sty that they're a horim that they're trying to heal. But like I said, I just find that it seems to enhance the results. I do like to preferably pair it with other treatments to get those better results.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, because I know I think the yellow is like for wrinkles, the infrared is kind of the deep for the discomfort, the pain that you were just talking about. And I think the red is inflammation, is that the red is red. And then the blue is for- Antimicrobial. Antimicrobial. Right. So when you say, and without you, I don't want you to break down your cost and price structure, but when you combine these procedures, do you have a, you're coming in for this, so these are the procedures we're going to do and this is how much it's going to cost. Or do you break it down and say, "This is what's in your best interest, so we need to do these three things and this is how much each one costs and let patients decide if they want to do it.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
" Yeah. So depending on the patient, depending on if you're new to my sort of dry eye surfaces, we feel out again, what is your concern clinically, what am I seeing?
(25:31):
We do utilize educational videos that we send them so that they are educated a bit more extensively than in the exam room, not long, but it's nice to hear it again. And so I always write down, these are the treatments I would recommend and why. And I will tell my staff, they know. I'm like, if they only pick one, this is the one that they would need to start with, but we really do try to utilize packaging things together. So we do have per treatment pricing, but when we lay it out, we have very good information that you as a patient would see to be able to digest, "Oh, if I do these treatments, this is how much this is. If I do these, HSA, FSA flexible, we do offer financing." And about once or twice a year, we do run some specials and promotions on specific treatments or to allow patients to potentially try things out that have never done it before so they can see how that best benefits
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Them.That's awesome. I mean, I know that when patients start seeing improvement, they're just like, "I can't stop." I mean, there was a skincare group here that was doing YAG and IPL for melasma and for acne scars and for rosacea, and the results were phenomenal. It's just like you just added on and just, why couldn't we do that in the optometric practice and you're doing it and it's just amazing. So I want to end by asking you two more questions. Okay. One, do you have information you give your patients like the guys that have guideliner or the females that wear a lot of makeup and they say, "Oh, is there specific makeup you recommend?" Because I feel a lot of the male optometrists just kind of go, "Huh?" Do you provide information for patients about that?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I do. So when patients come in, we talk a bit about, depending on, I get to see what their makeup looks like oftentimes. And so we talk about appropriate application under the lash line for eyeliner, no tight lining on the lid margin. We talk about proper makeup removal. I'm like, "Are you removing your makeup every night?" And I can see if it's flaking off onto the lid margin. I know you can too, Mark, when you're
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Looking
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Under the microscope.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Oh, I can. Oh, I can.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
That's pretty telling.
(27:55):
We talk about, and I take pictures and I'm like, "This is what I'm seeing. This is why it's bad." So we talk about appropriate makeup removal. So I'll recommend, just because Bosch and Lom has tested so many of their products, the eye illuminations line, which includes Lumify, but there has their Mysolar 3M1 cleanser. It's got some other products that have been safety tested, which most companies don't go through. So it's nice to know those are really nice. So we talk about hygiene inhabits in addition to, and that segues into lid bluff issues, things like that. For guys, it depends. But if I were to give advice to male optometrists, I would start with, you need to be comfortable talking about if you see something with their makeup that doesn't look right and you know if it doesn't look right. If it's not in this place that it's supposed to be, you got to say something because sometimes women don't know and they're like, I'm like, "Look at this.
(28:48):
" And I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to tightline. That's bad. Why is that bad? Tell me why.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
So would it be bad if I just went, "Girl, did you guys go to Clown College to learn how to put that on your eyes?" Would that be bad?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Maybe
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Tweak
Speaker 2 (29:02):
That a little bit. We'll talk after the recording here.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah. I'm like, okay, does Stevie Wonder put that makeup on your face? I mean, come on. You are tightlining so hard right now.You're not maxing. You're already
Speaker 2 (29:18):
There. You're a natural.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I got it. You're not mogging. Okay. You're not going to mog the way that it looks right now. So all right, one last question. If you could have one, what's in the future or what's something else that you feel you would love to add to your practice or have they not come up with it yet or you don't know?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I don't know. I think I have everything that I want at this point. Who knows what the next thing will be.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
That is true. That is true.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I would love to see treatments that are maybe quicker, a little bit easier, but just as effective, that would be really great. Things that you could do immediately following an exam without having to necessarily schedule patients back If we can figure that out, that would be awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Nice. Very nice. Love it. Okay. Do you do photography though? Do you take pictures and show patients and stuff? Yes. Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, we do take before and after images. It's
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Amazing. Love it. Well, I learned more about ocular aesthetics in this 25 minutes that we've been talking than I did in 32 years of practicing, but I'm excited. I love this. The one thing that I love though is that within optometry, we can do intraoptometric referrals. And so I'm going to start telling patients they need to go to Medina and they're going to say to your dina. And I'm like, yeah, Medina. And I want you to go to complete eyecare of Medina.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And you're going to tell them it's funky and cold.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yes. Well, not always cold. You guys, what's the weather right now?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Oh, it's actually beautiful. We've had a lovely 70 degree day today.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
That is. So yeah, so whenever people say, "Oh, you're in the desert." Yeah, it's 92 degrees today. No, no thank you too soon, not ready for it. Dr. Wesley, Gina, thank you so much for joining us on Collaborative Corner, the podcast. You're amazing. And just keep doing what you're doing because you're making all of us shine. Appreciate you. Well,
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Likewise, Mark. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Everybody, we'll see you whenever I see you again. I don't know. We'll see if they bring you back. We'll see you in the next quarter. Take care.